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A note on Formality
Master
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Greetings my fellow Jedi,
This is something that has been on my mind for a while now and I think it is just what the Temple needs. I have noticed since my arrival and involvement here at the Temple that we are missing something that is very vital to any organization: formality.

Formality is something that we all must recognize and I am finding that we treat each other way to much in the familiar. When I train in my martial arts class, everyone is a sir or mamm, Mr., Miss, or Mrs., and with those of the appropriate rank (4th degree blackbelt or higher for my school), we call them Master. It should be o differnt here. We should be addressing each other by the appropriate appellations. Reasons for this are simple. For apprentices, it instills a customary respect to those who have more experience than others. For Masters, it reminds them to be humble and that they have a responsibility to teach and lead by example those who are lower in rank than they. Eventhough you may not consider yourself a master, you carry the appellation and therefore the responsibility. I have known many Masters who say that they are no masters at all. This is both true and false. It is true in the fact that they have not achieved what their idea of being a Master is. This is good. It shows a willingness to continue learning. The reason it is false is because they have still achieved more than those of us without the title and therefore are qualified to guide in the path of the Jedi. I hope you follow my thinking here. It is my sincere belief that some of the problems that we are having here stem from the fact that we are not maintaining a certain level of discipline, and we are talking to each other as equals when we are not. Don't get me wrong, we are all Jedi here and every voice is important, but the fact of the matter is that we are separated by the fact we all have a rank: apprentice, Knight, or Master. We must recognize this and act accordingly. I mean, you did not see Anakin Skywalker shout up the halls, "Hey Mace, what up?" Even when he was displeased, he never strayed from the formal titles of the Masters present. Not to use a movie example here, but I think it might help to illustrate my point here.

Here is my idea:
-Apprentices can address other apprentices in the familiar, there is no rank separation to work with here.
-Apprentices should address Knights as Jedi (enter name) and Masters as Master (enter name).
-If a Knight becomes an instructor to an apprentice, whether it be one on one or in a classroom situation, the apprentice should address the instructor as Master.
-Knights should be addressing Masters by there titles.
-Masters, please address Knights as Jedi (enter name) and apprentices just the same.

These are, of course, open to discussion and modification, and I truly do not want to turn this site toward a militaristic fashion, but I think that if we are going to have a formal temple, then formality is just what we need to take another good step in the right direction.

I'll get off my soapbox now,
Jedi Grayson Dark

Posted on: 2007/4/15 23:48
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Re: A note on Formality
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Dear Jedi GD

Is this idea for inclusion in the Temple rule book?

I'm all for protocol, so could you advise me where I should post this for appropriate response and debate.

Regards

Master Reverend (I)Council KC Avalon Dabak

Posted on: 2007/4/16 6:27
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Re: A note on Formality
Master
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Well not of late, but in the past I have seen a lot of formality in the chatroom. We're pretty good with titles, perhaps we could step that up a bit more?

I notice a lot of new people get confused with the bowing of the older members. Of those who do it, they are showing a sign of respect and it's a good hahbit to have.

Posted on: 2007/4/16 6:58
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Re: A note on Formality

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I would argue that working on common decency is much more important at this point in time than insisting on a particular vocabulary. While eventually it may be a good idea, it's hard not to view this sort of formality as a whitewashing a tomb.

For instance, while Anakin may have used formal titles, it was clear that his respect was ultimately empty. I could easily see the same thing occuring here. In creating rules that require particular forms, we may be setting up stumbling blocks.

Ultimately, then, I agree that the spirit is a good idea. However, would it be possible to rephrase what you've done here not in terms of precise rules of engagement, but as more general suggestions for respect in every aspect of communication?

Posted on: 2007/4/16 7:59
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Re: A note on Formality
Master
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Quote:
It is my sincere belief that some of the problems that we are having here stem from the fact that we are not maintaining a certain level of discipline


Having ten+ yrs in the martial arts under my belt now you don't know on how many levels I agree with this statement. I would even say more then just some. Now to get back on topic.

I agree with this to a point. In the Dojo I would never call my Sensei Caesar., outside the Dojo though we use names. When I go for a visit it's just Caesar, so there is a time and place for everything. I would say informal chat should be just that, informal. It's in the class setting or really any formal setting that the titles should be used. Just my opinion..

Posted on: 2007/4/16 9:06
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Re: A note on Formality
Master
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Thank you to everyone who has replied so far to this thread. Let me comment on your posts in the order that I have received them.

Master KC Avalon Dabak:
I think this would be a great idea for a post up to the Temples rules and procedures. Currently, I am looking at getting feedback to the idea before pressing further.

JediKaren:
Thank you for your comments. I am not saying that we are all lax on formality, but we should step it up a bit. I think that it will show newer and prospective students that we are organized and have respect for each other.

Tara:
As I mentioned, these ideas are just that, ideas. Nothing is set to stone yet and they are open to discussion and modification to suit our needs. As far as the empty respect that Anakin Skywalker expressed, I know martial arts masters who probably do not deserve their ranks, but all in all, even if I do not respect the person, I still respect the rank that he holds. It is only proper, nobody is perfect and he or she is probably working on the flaws that I find distasteful. Thank you for the comments.

Master Merin Kyo-Den:
I thank you for your insight. Here is my thought. If we had a physical place that we all attended and knew each other face to face, then I would agree with you, there is a tume and place for appellation. However, this a cyber-temple and the only time we truly interact is in the chat. I would have to say that respect for titles should extend there as well, due to the reasons that we do not meet at all outside the Temple. Thank you again, Master.

Thank you all again for the comments that I have received thus far, and I look forward to reading more.

May the Force be With You!
Jedi Grayson Dark

Posted on: 2007/4/16 10:29
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Re: A note on Formality
Jedi Sentinel
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I agree with this whole forum topic everyone that has posted a reply is correct a simple form of discil=pline I use when teaching a Martial Art is this:

1.Always show RESPECT to others no matter who they are or what they are.
2.Treat others as you would like to be treated this means be polite, honost, and sincere and people will be the same to you.
3.Show humble actions in life aswell as in this dojo, it is the way of the PEACEFUL WARRIOR.
4.DO NOT BRAG OR SHOW OFF, this is simply a must for all braggards are mearlypeople who lack discipline andwisdom, showing off is a major lack of discipline and as such you should be at the bottom of the totem pole learning the basics.
5.The Basics:Respect,Discipline,Honosty,Humbled,Politeness,
Sincerity, and the final three Focus, Knowledge, Wisdom.
6.Wok hard and practice often, a lazy person earns nothing but more work.

Posted on: 2007/4/16 14:10
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Re: A note on Formality
Master
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Greetings my fellow Jedi,

Since we have such a large amount of new members, I thought I would *bump* this topic up to the top for a bit.

MTFBWY
Jedi Grayson Dark

Posted on: 2008/2/23 15:54
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Re: A note on Formality

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I might be in the minority on this one.
I never liked being called " Sir " in class. I always preferred being called by my name. I was more comfortable that way.
I understand ranks and all of that, and earning the title of " Master ". I understand for the purposes of chain of command. Just not sure if that's what you need in on-line setting.
Just my opinion, and what the hell do I know ?

Posted on: 2008/2/23 19:02
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Re: A note on Formality
Master (USA)
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I believe that some standard should be set. I suppose that it could equate to a general "Rule of Etiquette and Decorum".

The benefits are documented, with the most obvious examples being that of a Martial Arts class, military, seamanship, and organizations.

But I believe that Tara has illustrated a good point, one that I myself ran into in the course of my training in martial arts. It is easy, too easy as a matter of fact, for formality and decorum to become simply empty words and actions, and in the end bring about problems for the one whos words are empty, and those whom the words and actions fall upon.

To initiate a standard is wonderful, but in order to be truly effective in any way it must have something tangible to back it up. If a standard is to exist, then so must a plan to plant the seed of self respect and honor in others, so that they might never find their own actions hollow, and their own actions deceptive.

To ask this of any people is taking the responsibility to show them why they should show respect, gain their respect, and show them how to respect on their own.

Thats all I have for now.

May the Force be with You.

Posted on: 2008/2/23 21:39
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