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Change of direction at TOTJO
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I'm posting this in this section as it concerns us as sister site to these 2 sites and also it's new direction can become a new direction for us as well but for this to make sense i will be posting 2 notices from Br.John here

Written by John Henry Phelan
Monday, 17 November 2008
Br. John's Epistle to The Sith
I know that many Sith feel like a child that's been abandoned by a parent and this is true. I created the notion of The Fifth Rite and I created TOTS only to find that is was not right for me. Many remember the days of Maleficus. When one disavows the Jedi Oath a Jedi s/he is no longer and that was your choice - not mine. For some the Sith path is right, for some like me it's not. I know that we need each other lest we become unbalenced like the old Jedi in (dare I say it) the movies.
I gave TOTS to Lord Ash`rak and to all Sith freely and with no conditions. It's yours now. The true Sith here stood for their convictions and resigned offices that are meant for Jedi. Many think that I've been cruel or at least picking on The Sith to use as a scapegoat to blame for problems. That is not true. If any one reason it be is that we were tying to fit too much into a space too small.
How does a baby bird feel when after being born blind and helpless, cared for and fed by its mother, is suddenly pushed out of the nest? For a moment he feels like you do right now. Betrayed, shocked and afraid. In the next moment he flies. You may not see it now but this is what you want and and what you need. You might even come to forgive Br. John one day.

On the public page of TOTS you say:

We don't believe that peace can ever truly be accomplished, not in the typically defined terms anyway. Inner peace can be accomplished, but we fight against that because only through strife and conflict can we learn and grow. Peace only breeds stagnation.

Br. John has blessed you with strife and conflict so as a Sith you should thank me. You've grown from a Rite to an Independent Order.

I'll always be grateful to TOTS, my child, for showing me once and for all where I belong. And I loved you enough to let you go unconditionally with no back door so I could lord over you.

As for the other Rites their time has passed. All Rites are retired. We know who we are. We're secure in our being. We don't need the training wheels anymore. Be you Agnostic, Christian, Pagan, Buddhist or something I've never heard about you've reconciled our Creed, Oath and Doctrine with your traditions and found that all is well. So instead of Rites we'll just have you and your traditions as they are, as we've always done.

I did not cease being a Zen Master or a natural born Witch when I became a Jedi and if you don't consider Gnosticism heresy I even have Christian traditions. Many have found no solace in any tradition, or worse have been hurt by religion, but they found a home here. Before today we called that The Pure Land Jediism Rite.
There's plenty of room in the signature section to mention that you're a Christian Jedi Minister etc; we just broke down the walls and now have a space big enough for all of us at once. The forums are still here to be renamed Pagan Philosophy Discussions etc. All Sith are welcome here just like the members of TOTJF or any guest for that matter. I've insisted that Sith not be officers here because I well know how much time and dedication it takes to run an independent church and I know that many are so noble that they would exhaust themselves by trying to work for two Orders and that's one too many.
We'll continue to have Sith teachers here and be glad to have another point of view in the advanced subjects. The Sith will always be special to us as they came from us just like TOTJF. Nobody's leaving. Nobody's loosing a home. All your friends are still here and we are not going anywhere.
I congratulate Lord Ash`rak (Hans) as he is now the 'Br. John' of the Temple Of The Sith. He is as much its founder as I. I congratulate the clergy of The Sith and all their officers. Do for Sithism what TOTJO did for Jediism. You have a lot of hard work but you will prevail. We are brothers and sisters in The Living Force.
This is not a time of goodbye's but of new greetings for a new age and movement.
I love you all. I especially love you who've criticized me and shown me my faults.
May The Force Be With You And Serve You Well.
I am a Jedi an instrument of Peace ....

Written by John Henry Phelan
Tuesday, 18 November 2008
TOTJO Organizational Convention is Open
OK Jedi and Sith; I hear you. The Epistle to The Sith is VOID. All the resignations of The Sith are VOID. The office of Chaplain is vacant.
All I am doing now is keeping the site up and running and keeping us legal as a corporation. Other than that I ABSTAIN.
You want a true democracy - you got it.
Every single member Jedi and Sith have one vote each irrespective of rank or how long s/he has been a member. If you want a council elect one. You need to elect a Chairperson and Secretary for the convention. Write a Constitution for TOTJO. Make up all the rules yourselves. Elect all the officers yourselves. The persons in office now shall hold office until their successors are elected and qualified.
Here is your fresh start with a blank page. I am not involved, will not vote and above all don't come to me with complaints or problems unless it's an issue with the site. It's not my job anymore.
SO ORDERED
/Br. John Henry Phelan+/

Posted on: 2008/11/18 19:37
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Re: Change of direction at TOTJO
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The Following in the formal declaration of TOTS

Written by H Finch
Tuesday, 18 November 2008

Dear Members of TOTJO!

Due to the turbulent times that we all have experienced ( for the Sith being not the first time) and after carefull reflection we have come to a joint decision with respect to our role here at TOTJO. Our place in TOTJO has always seemed to be a precarious one and will always probably be one. This has to stop!

After receiving a clear and pointed call to show colours in the face of immenent consequences, our members posted their resignations. These resignations were sent out of respect for the laws of this Temple, after careful personal consideration and out of conviction for our vocation to the Sith path. These our convictions which led us to resign still stand as do our resignations. As Br. John has already pointed out this break has proved to be a break what for us is a golden age. As the old adage says "Nothing happens for nothing!" As others have also correctly pointed out this is Temple of the JEDI Order and as such should remain so.

What has been most unnerving is the endless discussions, debates, protests and arguements concerning the validity, use and place of the then 5th and the TOTS. It seemed there were moments that existed when no other topic than this seemed to exist. Maybe you can imagine how humiliating and nausiating this felt. There were even moments where we were not even allowed to publically use the terminology Sith or Lord. Will this end? We don`t want to find out. As Br. John has certified we are no longer the 5th "wheel on the wagon" but the TOTS.

We have our own Temple, History, System and traditions. Yes we do origionate from here, our roots are here, but as Br. John also said we have learned to fly. That means we will also learn to fall, but that is the conflict life calls us to continually face. Out of respect to our roots, our friends and with the invitation of Br. John we will continue to visit as respectful guests without the need for rank, position or Holy Orders. As guests we do not see it our place to teach Sith, influence TOTJO in it`s beaurocracy nor are we interested to awake the interest of any potential vocations for TOTS.

This is our offical stance. Of course we cannot guarantee for individuals who may decide otherwise for themselves, but be rest assured they will stand alone.

MTFSYW

Dark Lord Ash`rak

Dark Lord of the Sith

Posted on: 2008/11/18 19:39
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Re: Change of direction at TOTJO
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I would like to believe what is posted here, but as many of us know Br.John has never given anythign away freely there was always a catch of ten.
He was never really fond of having to follow a Council's decisions, let alone be disciplined for his actions, when he was brought out for his misactions and betrayls he closed the site then opened it then would shut it down again and then blame hackers, and would even delete posts and ban people for no reason, as stated in the shout box
"Garth Dabri`Meem: ummm Xan, don't be suprised if he doesn't stay resigned, just remember History does repeat itself " this is true everyone knows it, we spent roughly six months after the split dealing with Darth Malficious and his alter ego Br. John and the exploits of his campaigne to end us for leaving him.
If John truly has let ToTS go freely then all the best to them.

*bows*

Posted on: 2008/11/18 21:24
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Re: Change of direction at TOTJO
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Why should I care about this and how does it even concern us? He can take that site in any direction, or in several directions at the same time, that he may want. That was the whole point of the separation in the first place. John wanted to do what John wanted to do and so he started his won site free of the likes of myself, Kyp, and Jax so he could, and more power to em. I don't believe he'll stay retired though because it's just not in his nature but only time will tell. To reiterate though really it's my opinion that we have no need to air that stuff here as it really isn't any of our business. I wish both sites the best and welcome any and all here at any time if they show respect and humility.

Posted on: 2008/11/18 22:42
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Re: Change of direction at TOTJO
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Quote:

Merin Kyo-Den wrote:
because it's just not in his nature but only time will tell. To reiterate though really it's my opinion that we have no need to air that stuff here as it really isn't any of our business. I wish both sites the best and welcome any and all here at any time if they show respect and humility.


I agree

Posted on: 2008/11/19 15:34
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Re: Change of direction at TOTJO
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Yes... I believe the phrase was... hell, I'll just quote what he said last time:

Quote:
What part of John Henry Phelan is an ex-officio member of the Board / Council for life and a voting member for life don't you understand?


The reason it concerns us is because whether we like it or not, the two sites are entwined. They're both on the same server, when one goes down, the other goes as well and vice/versa. Therefore, if things get "ugly", it will affect us here as well.

Otherwise, I agree.

Posted on: 2008/11/20 1:37
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Re: Change of direction at TOTJO
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OK, first of, those who know me know that a saying applies to me, I call a spade a spade (shovel to you in the USA) but please be assured anything I am about to say here is of utmost respect to everyone.

#1 the point kyp raised about the server is valid - but it only need be a problem if you allow it to be so, you could all easily transfer this site to another host and be unaffected by totjo business.

I firmly believe all of this 'problem' to be taken way out of context. With the creation of TOTS was it not a forseeable and perhaps even natural evolution for this step to be taken.

The actual point was and is for TOTS to be totally independent of totjo and for them to grow unhindered in their own way. The issue over oath I also feel is valid - ie how can a single person take and hold true to suce opposite oaths? However I still maintain all followers of the force, brothers and sisters of the force, are Jedi. My feeling is that once again there is confusion over the real world jedi and the fictional jedi - that some of the ideals of fictional jedi, the more unworkable ones, slip into a few peoples minds and grate against the real world. No one can utterly deny the routes of jediism, we all have to acknowledge the fictional works of starwars but we must all have the wisdom to know where the lines need to be drawn.

Now whilst everyone has their personal opions of other members of all the communities, I dont think expressing direct views of another person is helpful in any way shape or form. I would also like to agree that for the 99% of concerns ie the link with totjo and tots and totjf, that really only kyps physical server concern is truly valid. I would like to say for my self, that I would to apologise, not on behalf of totjo because that is not my place, but for myself, i would like to apologise for totjo nusienss (past and present) being dragged kicking and screaming into your otherwise relatively peaceful halls, many of you will know of what I am speaking but as I said, naming names, pointing sabers etc is neither constructive or necessary.

I would also like to say I have learned alot from memebers of all three sites and in some cases made good friends but I have certainly gained a great number of mentors of all ranks.

I would also like to take this opportunity to say that during this 'transition period' (assuming some of your thoughts about BrJohn turn out to be true or otherwise) that I am taking no part in the 'reconstruction' or 'clean up operation' of totjo. My reasons are many but the main one is as follows and im afraid some people reading will not like what I am going to say but honesty is the best policy and I know some people are going to feel i am accusing them, this is their decision but I am going to express my feeling regardless.

In the pst, myself and others have worked hard to run and maintain totjo. As such we were given ranks and titles etc (which i will go onto later). As a result, to cut a long story short, it seems people who work hard for the benefit of the temple, are power hungry megalomaniacs (accordng to various members of each of the respective temples). Now my view was simply that a job or jobs needed doing and i had the time (and in some cases) technical know how to do them and as others didnt step forward to fill these positions, I offered my services. If an individual chooses to perceive this as being power mad then fine. The result of this is that I find myself with a label of (among other phrases) as 'BrJohn's Alterboy' as such I feel my presence on any councils etc on totjo, inc jobs/management roles are untenable, I would always be under the microscope as a spy or whatever of brjohns and I refuse to have any more labels stuck to me and to take any more flak for doing what I thought was for the good of the temple.

In terms of titles ranks etc, here is my personal view, and you may or may not like them, whilst i respect them here is the truth of the matter, all these 'temples' are really just websites, blips in cyberspace. Now this business of people being power hungry, rank and title hunters is ludicrous... just think about it, what is one actually gaining, its certainly nothing tangible, its not like (for example) your gaining wealth, so what is there to be truly gained? and thus the idiocy of fear of losing such 'power and rank' and this is beside the fact we are all su[[osed to be jedi... possessions, etc etc etc are not the jedi way.

In relation to this I posted a blog on totjo called 'what is a master' (I think one has to be logged in to read it)... but my point of what yopu may view as a rant is that I feel the time has come for me personally to sit back and simply observe.

I do not wish to necessarily blow up my bridges and cut all ties from Jediism ans I am still sure in my heart that I am a jedi - its just I am having troubles with the way other so called jedi are currently behaving. This I know smacks of arrogance so let me clarify, i am not saying i am any better than anyone and neither am I even thinking that no one is not a jedi - in terms of a jedi being a follower of the force anyway - if individuals wish to ascribe to a philosophy with the name of sithism then that is fine, it is their decision to make, after all, choice is the only true freedom any of us have in life. I wish everyone where ever they are, all the best in their endevours.

I do however think every ones needs to re-evaluate their actions, past and present, to think about the future consequences and to be sure this is the path they truly wish to take. I feel some are lost, that they have become so caught up inthe business of various sites that they have lost the real path, the path of their jediism. This is certainly the case for myself and so i am taking this opportunity to sit back, to think on myself and to observe others. This may well sound selfish, or even im shirking responsibilities, but I promise, a part of me finds the prospect of a fresh start and taking this chance to help in a new era for totjo - another part tells me I may have been an unwitting part of the problem and thus I have to let others take the opportunity to fly in the airspace.

I would also like to ask everyone reading this to remember who or what they ascribe to be - Jedi - and thus to show and treat everyone with respect. By giving we receive. Lead by example - as maximus said 'brothers, What we do in life, echoes an eternity' and these echoes resonate through the force and thus touch us all.

So I humbly as everyone supports everyone else in their mutual paths, don't judge anyone, don't fight and bicker like stray dogs over scraps - if necessary, remind yourself of what it means to be a jedi and re read the oath, the teachings the creed etc -

We are all brothers and sisters of the force - everything we do and say is right and wrong - under a certain point of view

MTFBWY - A

Posted on: 2008/11/20 8:34
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Re: Change of direction at TOTJO
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Oh, I certainly don't see you as Br. John's "Alter boy"... nor have I ever. I do know Br. John, however. The TOTJO was, and is his baby so to speak. I think that deep down, he does really care, and wants the TOTJO to succeed. Especially since it is a legally existing entity, and one of the more stable references to Jediism existing on or offline. I think he becomes passionate about certain things, but that is something all of us do to an extent.

As far as what I said about his status and things potentially getting ugly... it has happened before, and will happen again. It's a cycle, a pendulum which swings back and forth in rhythm. It seems to swing to the side it is now whenever Br. John gets depressed or too angry. In that, I do feel for him... I wish he would become the Jedi I know exists within him somewhere.

The Temple of the Jedi Force is in turn the offspring of the Temple of the Jedi Order. Each site focuses on it's own direction, but ultimately we are united if nothing else than for the fact that we are all Jedi to varying degrees. "Jediism is not an organized religion and followers of the Jedi path hold different opinions and views. However, they share a common 'belief' in the Force, and follow the rules of the Jedi code." In bringing Jediism to the forefront of the public world, we need to unite... not to become one site, but to become one voice. All true Jedi have a vested interest in what Jediism is, and what it becomes in the future. We need to look beyond the scope of websites and ego, and put aside our petty differences. All of us need to focus first and foremost on being Jedi, no matter what path within Jediism we follow. I urge you all to look at the bigger picture, the greater goal of the Jedi community as a whole. We are still in our infancy, especially compared to other world religions... but we need to move beyond crawling, and learn to walk. The Jedi Order could be so much more than it is if we would only unite in our common goals.

Yes... there is too much focus on empty online titles. There is too much focus on everyone trying to be the "Grand Master" of their respective "Order", which too often is only represented online. Websites and forums are good for fellowship, but they are not the pinnacle of what we can achieve... what we are meant to achieve. In the end, how many of us take our role in the Jedi Order offline? How many of us truly follow what we claim to when not in front of the computer screen? More of us need to focus on bringing the Jedi Order to the "offline" world as well. Some of us have taken, or are in the process of taking those first vital steps into the public world... often at the cost of personal ridicule. The more of us who take up the path of bringing the Jedi Order to the outside world, the less impact that ridicule will have on our community. It is time for us to show the world that we deserve to be taken seriously.

((On an off-topic note, is there any way we can convince Br. Todd to fix the security token issue so that we're not automatically signed out after 30 minutes?))

Posted on: 2008/11/20 9:12
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Re: Change of direction at TOTJO
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Allow me to say this much.

I am well aware of the history of Br. John's retiring on multiple occasions. What issues are raised with TOTJO are TOTJO issues. We (TOTS) are no longer involved.

As you can tell from the post of Lord Ash`rak we have claimed our independence from TOTJO 100%. Now as to us that needs to learn how to fly on our own, we have in fact been doing so since the sell of the Site and all rights that accompany that sell, CLEAN AND CLEAR. Not to be rude or anything, but it seems that TOTJO is the site that needs to learn how to spread their wings and learn how to fly.

For far too long the Sith or 5th Rite has been laid with blame that is completely unfair in many regards. Any issues that have resulted in true blame the Sith have taken responsibility for. It will now be interesting to see who gets the blame now that we are out of the picture.

Many of you ask "How does this affect TOTJF?" besides the server issue, it would be readily apparent. TOTJF is Jedi and TOTJO is Jedi, so common sense would say that you are all Jedi. But you do not see this which is your mistake.

MTFSYW

Lady Lumiya
Lady of the Sith

Posted on: 2008/11/20 19:20
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TOTJO:
Rank: Jedi Bishop Master
Rite: Pagan
Apprentices: None
Former Master: Master Caedus, Fr. Jon

TOTJF:
Rank: Apprentice
Master: Master Scythe

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Re: Change of direction at TOTJO
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Greetings all,

I am usually not one to speak on this type of thing, because my only concern is the development of Jedi and this Temple. Now...here's the thing. If Jedi want to come here from TOTJO because they are either seeking something better and/or different than what they have been accustomed to in the past, then so be it...more the merrier, Welcome to the Temple of the Jedi Force!

But I will say this. This Temple does not train in, nor tolerate dark side practices. We do not have Sith here, nor do we practice the 5th Rite (We have no Rites here.). We are Jedi here and practice in the light. The only dark that is here is that which has been brought with and the willing are training to part with. I want this to be crystal clear to everyone.

Thank you and May the Force be With You,
Jedi Grayson Dark

Posted on: 2008/11/20 22:46
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