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Re: Change of direction at TOTJO
Honorary Master
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There's no use beating a dead dog but I must remind y'all of one thing. Before the Schism the contract was that I would be a Non Voting ex offico member of The Council (TC). I was to be included in all TC business like any other member of TC and be able to speak on issues but not vote.

Everyone involved especially KC Avalon went out of their way to exclude me from TC and would not even tell me what was going on. "We (TC) will inform you when and if we wish", she told me.

The amendments to the articles of incorporation were mailed in and you can look them up to this day on the official Texas site. I'd really done what I agreed.

It was TC that broke the agreement so I stopped payment on the filing fee and the articles of amendment were revoked and voided by the Secretary of State of Texas.

We'll never know what would have been but had they not broke our contract the amendments would have legally removed my power over the Old TOTJO and I could have done nothing to void it.

It's convenient to forget this annoying fact since it destroys such a lovely theory but all of you who were around back then know it is true.

After Todd and I literally were almost the death of each other and now we're BFF again I don't believe it's possible for something to ever get us back to that horrible place again. I've known Todd since 1983.

If I remember correctly TC that replaced me here was eventually wiped out of existence by Todd for never getting anything done.

I don't know how your system is now but I am glad that you found something that worked.

The Sith do have a point about conflict being a catalyst to creation (if it's not carried to far which I believe The Sith Creed does). There are now four viable sites that probably would never have been had there not been The Schism. At least folks have a choice and that's a good thing.

TOTJF
(The New) TOTJO
Master Kyp's Praxeum
http://TempleOfTheSith.org

MTFBWYA,

Br. John+

Posted on: 2008/11/21 4:14
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Re: Change of direction at TOTJO
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I dont know if JGD speaks on behalf of all in his response so please dont flame me if this is not quite so (althoughtIm sure the sentiment is quite accurate)

My Take is that all the temples can put onto a scale, like we do for political parties, I see Totjf at one end, totjo somewhere in the middle (with fluctuations left n right) and tots at the other end.

The scale is simply the human view, the philosophies... the force simply is

So in that respect, we are all linked via the force.

However to put what others have said in a more direct and brutally blunt fashion id like to suggest this

People who 'prefer' the methods of totjf, keep to totjf and concern themselves with totjf business and dont drag your dirty linen around with you to other temples.

People who 'prefer' the methods of totjo, keep to totjo and concern themselves with totjo business and dont drag your dirty linen around with you

People who 'prefer' the methods of tots, keep to tots and concern themselves with tots business and dont drag your dirty linen around with you

If the various other sites allow guest visits then great, visit our mutual brothers and sisters of the force and friends, but please show the common courtesy to show respect, and respect each of the groups and indeed individuals practises, without judgment.

Ive said it before and again and again, but if you dont like the way a site/temple is run - leave (ie dont visit) it truly is as simple as that.

I hope I haven't offended anyone with this and again I apologise for airing my dirty laundry in another's yard - if your wondering where i stand on the scale... actually I like elements of all so I cant say for sure.

Once again my sincere best wishes to EVERYONE in their endevours

MTFBWY - A / MYGGWY / MTFSYW

Posted on: 2008/11/21 5:00
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Re: Change of direction at TOTJO
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Oh heck - TOTJO and TOTJF are considered fringe sites in the Jedi Community (or what is left of it) and that is more a problem of the main Jedi Community than TOTJO and TOTJF.

Some of us are way outside these boxed Jedi anyway - I'd say the vast majority have gone into free-float.

Do what "feels" right. It's all we can do?

Things can stay the same - but change is most often the order of the day. Adjusting to change and following the Force within it is, at heart, what it really means to be a Jedi. It is the real strength of the Jedi.

I've come to learn this hard, hard lesson as a "Jedi" and through various training.

And John - yes! on the rest of it. I remember those days.

Crazy how things turn out. (Ain't living fun?)

Posted on: 2008/11/21 23:09
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Re: Change of direction at TOTJO
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Mind sharing which of these groups within the "Jedi Community" consider us to be the fringe? Mind you, I am not trying to be petty, but we are some of the most active Jedi that I know of. And by we, I mean those of us who make up the TOTJO, TOTJF, and Praxeum, each of which has it's own focus and purpose. I would like to get in touch with this Jedi Community of which you speak, and show them that we are worthy.

Posted on: 2008/11/22 19:59
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Re: Change of direction at TOTJO
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I second that sentiment, Master Kyp. I have been around the Jedi Coomunity for quite some time.....the majority ofthe sites I originally contributed to are now defunct in some way. That is not meant as a put-down to anyone, it is a simple statement of fact. When I first came here, I was glad to see the amount activity that this site has. Even the Force Academy, which was a major part of the Community, has been experiencing their share of issues (I have been a member there for 7 years...). So Asta, with the utmost respect, I suggest that you do a little research before you make such a statement.

Vor'entye,

Posted on: 2008/11/23 9:33
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Vor'entye,

Callista Gseran
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The Force truly has no sides. It is that which resides within each of us that the Force reflects. It is this reflection of our inner self that changes things.
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Re: Change of direction at TOTJO
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Er... Callista? I have seen you around the sites - but not for some time - and never for very long. But you echo my statement in that I agree - most of the sites are now defunct.

This site was very nearly so. But has slowly come back after two years. It's why I have always questioned why others were quick to judge TOTJO and TOTJF and not become a member - or if they did - to quickly say they were fringe.

Ditto on that to you Kyp. But ask Callista - most sites consider TOTJO and TOTJF rather "fringe". TOTJO because of its' religious (Catholic-sounding "Bishops" and "Fathers" - and TOTJF because it has strict ranks - and is considered rather RPG.

I won't try to convince you Kyp - you've joined at least one site for one day (Jedi Gatherings Group) but I suggest you look at Jedi Sanctuary, JUSTJedi, and become active so that you get your own answers.

This site is insular - it's something I've been concerned about from the beginning. It's not a "cut" - it's just the way it is and I would like to see what few Jedi remain to stop judging who is Jedi and who is not - and learn to work together in some way.

Join some sites and be active! Look around! The Jedi Community doesn't stop at these sister sites.

Perhaps that will help all sites - rather than wait for a few Jedi to join here - only to leave after a day or two? You will likely see some familiar names that also began here.

There has been change - and maybe it would be good to renew friendships?

- Asta

Thank you for asking me to explain further. Always happy to do so. But really - you need to explore yourself and make those judgements yourself.

Posted on: 2008/11/23 17:58
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Re: Change of direction at TOTJO
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Ok I am locking this thread so it doesn't start any unneeded strife, the points have been made and the subject is closed.

If we are considered rpgish then those people can simply leave and not come back or worry about us.

*bows*

Posted on: 2008/11/23 19:01
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Re: Change of direction at TOTJO
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Before you do, Master... I would like to definitively address the answers I asked for, and a couple of other things.

Quote:
Er... Callista? I have seen you around the sites - but not for some time - and never for very long. But you echo my statement in that I agree - most of the sites are now defunct.


Perhaps the reason she didn't remain at them for very long is because she found them lacking? I know I found them lacking when I first started trying to find the greater Jedi community. Yes, you heard me right... I did not by any means run a google search and come straight here to the (pre-split) TOTJO. I did, in fact, search out other sites first before settling on this one.

Quote:
This site was very nearly so. But has slowly come back after two years. It's why I have always questioned why others were quick to judge TOTJO and TOTJF and not become a member - or if they did - to quickly say they were fringe.


See, here's another thing of which you have absolutely no comprehension. THIS particular site(TOTJF) has only been here since the split from the original TOTJO site. There has never been a time when either the TOTJO or TOTJF has nearly gone defunct. If you are speaking of the ebb and flow of online activity, all websites go through that. Members who have joined only to leave, ex-members who whine about ranks and traditions, well, they are nothing but fanboys(and girls) who want to call themselves Jedi. There's a difference between calling yourself a Jedi and actually living it.

Quote:
Ditto on that to you Kyp. But ask Callista - most sites consider TOTJO and TOTJF rather "fringe". TOTJO because of its' religious (Catholic-sounding "Bishops" and "Fathers" - and TOTJF because it has strict ranks - and is considered rather RPG.


I will say this... I do not agree with the "catholic style" structure of the TOTJO. I have said as much there in fact... but that does not make them "fringe". Much as I disagree personally with the structure there, I too hold a position at the TOTJO, one which is a job. I consider my "title" at TOTJO to be a job title, nothing more or less.

As for the TOTJF, there are ranks for a reason. There are traditions for a reason. I will not reiterate the other discussions I've had with you about this, as it is obvious you are never going to see the facts of this matter. Following ranks and traditions does not make it RPG. Perhaps you and the rest of your ilk need to see what a forum-based Star Wars RPG actually looks like. I suggest the following, where I myself actually RP:
http://forums.jedi.net/phpBB2/viewfor ... 39d75a00b916150c31ef6b8b1

THAT is RPG. The TOTJF is not.

Quote:
I won't try to convince you Kyp - you've joined at least one site for one day (Jedi Gatherings Group) but I suggest you look at Jedi Sanctuary, JUSTJedi, and become active so that you get your own answers.


Ahh, and here we get to the twist. I registered at the Jedi Gatherings group, yes. For reasons which will become appearant in the coming few weeks. I haven't "become active" there yet because I have not fully prepared my material to be posted there.

As for the other sites you mentioned, I have visited them. I found their material to be very infantile, especially in the Jedi Sanctuary's case. I've read their "handbook"... I even still have a copy, from my first tour of the Jedi sites(before I joined the TOTJO in early '06). It reads like it was written by 12-16 year old RPGers. Why on earth would I want to become active in substandard groups who will not acknowledge the need for ranks, traditions, and standards? If these alone are the best of this Jedi Community you're referring to who thinks we're "fringe", then perhaps it is actually the other way around. As I said, there is a difference between calling yourself a Jedi and living up to actually being one. What have they... what have you actually contributed to the world's view of Jediism? We, of the TOTJF, TOTJO, and especially in coming weeks the Praxeum are the ones venturing into the "new frontier" of Jediism. We are the ones who are working to better our image as part of the greater Jedi Order... we are the ones working to help balance the bad press Jediism has gotten.

For the sake of going through the motions, however, I will check out these other sites again. I doubt I will find any differences from the last time, however. And even as a Jedi, I cannot lower my standards. Being a Jedi is not supposed to be quick and easy. It is supposed to be a commitment.

May the Force be with you, Asta. And may you some day open your eyes to the truth.

Posted on: 2008/11/23 20:31
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Re: Change of direction at TOTJO
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Here's a post started by Br John. If you click on his name it should take you to his intro page where you can read his posts. I was going to bump some of the interesting ones but I think I've bumped a lot already.

He's a really dynamic person. I think he's working on making TOTJO an international site now.

Posted on: 2/12 14:15
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